The Questions (and Answers) of BDJ

View a printable version of this Q & A here.

Q: Erev Pesach falling on Shabbat presents challenges in terms of what to prepare for Shabbat meals. Chametz (which in any case must be completed by 10:44 AM) is impractical, and Kosher l’Pesach for one more Shabbat than usual can, under some personal or familial circumstances, be trying. I wondered if I might alleviate it by serving kitniyot on that Shabbat. And if so, can I cook & serve kitniyot in my Pesachdik keilim (pots, plates, etc.)? Can I make beans in the kitchen when I am also making matzah ball soup? 

A: (RYK) A question that opens up so many interesting Halachik discussions! So, one at a time:

1. There is a debate among halachic authorities as to whether the Ashkenazic practice to refrain from eating kitniyot kicks in at the same time that the chametz prohibition begins, or whether it doesn’t begin until Pesach itself begins. The argument for the latter position is that the prohibition of chametz on Erev Pesach is different from, and less severe than, the standard chametz prohibition, which begins when Yom Tov itself begins. The former is derived from the distinct and separate prohibition of eating chametz while preparing the Paschal offering, and it does not carry the penalty of excision from one’s people. It could stand to reason therefore that the extra stringency of refraining from kitniyot would only go into practice when the “full-blown” chametz prohibition begins, i.e.at the onset of Yom Tov. Rabbi Yosef Elyashiv z”l ruled that “in a circumstance of need” one can be lenient, and eat kitniyot until Pesach itself begins. Determination as to whether you are in a “circumstance of need” is, I believe, best left to the honest and wise decision of each individual. 
2. So, on to the question of using Pesachdik pots etc. for the cooking and serving of kitniyot that you might be eating on Erev Pesach. Would doing so make these vessels unusable for the rest of Pesach?! Several important principles are relevant here:
   1. Once 24 hours have elapsed since a pot has been cooked in, the “ta’am” (taste) that it might impart to the next food cooked in it, is no longer desirable or beneficial, and is therefore halachikly null ("ta’am lifgam”). So, a Pesach pot that had been used to cook kitniyot more than 24 hours ago cannot render its current Pesachdik contents problematic. 
   2. This principle though, is generally an “after-the-fact” (בדיעבד) one. The general rule is that we should not knowingly (לכתחילה) use a pot that had absorbed halachikly problematic “ta’am” even after 24 hours have elapsed. This, lest things get mixed up in the kitchen and you actually use a “within-24-hour” pot instead. This factor would lead us to conclude that if you used the pot for kitniyot that you (Ashkenazic Jew) should not use it thereafter for Pesachdik without kashering it in the interim.

There are, however, reasons to be lenient in our case:

1. In the context of dairy and meat pots, the Vilna Gaon rules that one may, for example, cook a potato in a “within-24-hour” meat pot even with explicit intention to eat that potato smothered in cheese (which again, Ashkenazic Jews have a custom to not do), because even in the worst-case scenario of a kitchen mix-up, it would be permissible by the letter of the law to eat that potato smothered in cheese (as in fact Sephardic Jews would do!). This same thinking would clearly apply to our case and is sufficient all by itself. 
2. In addition, we know with certainty in this case that there is no worst-case scenario. This is because we are very lenient even about within-24-hour “ta’am” of kitniyot, regarding it as nullified by simple majority (rather than the usual 60:1). This is illustrated in the law (see Mishna Brurah 453: 8 and 9) that if some grains of rice or some beans accidentally fall into Pesach food that is cooking, they - and their ta’am (in a case in which the rice or beans can still be removed) - are nullified by simple majority. We thus know for sure that the amount of “ta’am” within the walls of a pot will always and invariably be nullified. This is the reason that an Ashkenazic Jew may eat (the non-kitniyot food) that his non-Ashkenazic host cooks for him, and the reason that, in our case, there is no reason to refrain from using the “24-hour-old” kitniyot pot for fear of getting mixed up and using a “within-24-hour” one. 

PLEASE NOTE that all of the above assumes that you are using rice or beans or buckwheat that is certified kasher l’Pesach for Sephardim, or that you have inspected them yourself to ensure that there is no chametz at all mixed in.

Q: Glass is pareve and kosher all year round - why do I need to soak it to kasher it for Pesach?

A: (RYK) Great question! See the section on Glass here.

Q: Can we use compostable products which may be made with soy/corn ingredients? What if it were made with wheat ingredients? 

A: (RYK) While the Star-K tends to be concerned about the issue of the composition of / ingredients within plates, the OU and the cRc are clearly not. This for example, from the OU, and from the cRc.

Further, to cite my friend Rabbi Barry Dollinger, “Biodegradable Plates – Many have raised concerns, as they often use corn in the production of biodegradable and compostable plates; these concerns have no basis in Jewish law. Corn is kitniyot, and therefore only prohibited as a food, but not for other benefit. Moreover, there is no discernable flavor of corn that enters from the plate. When using disposable plates, it is absolutely preferable to use more environmentally sustainable options, in the spirit of learning to be free and responsible human beings. (From this email sent to his congregation).

Q: I have a kitchen gadget which is truly a one-trick pony. It boils eggs, that is all it does. It consists of a metal plate, a plastic tray for the eggs, and a plastic dome. One pours water in, puts the dome over the eggs, turns it on, and 15 minutes later voila - boiled eggs. My question is whether I can use the same one for Pesach that I use all year, and if so, how would it need to be kashered. Although the only food that comes in contact with it are whole eggs, I do wash the plastic parts with my regular chametz sponges. Thank you. 

A: (RYK) By the letter of the law, it can certainly be argued that this gadget need not be kashered at all, as it may very well have never meaningfully contacted chametz food. However, it is very good policy, when it comes to anything that sits on our year-round counters and gets hot, to kasher all of the individual parts. The components you describe can all be immersed in boiling water (hagalah).

Q: One of the key concepts of the Seder night is V'higadeta l'vincha - teaching your children. How do we reconcile this with the fact that we can't start Seder night until so late at night so that our children can't really attend it? While I understand the Halachic need to start after it gets dark, can one not start some parts earlier?

A: (RYK) This is indeed a vexing issue; one made worse by daylight savings time beginning before Pesach. 

The rabbinic source that is primarily responsible for the Seder only beginning after nightfall (i.e. not after sunset, but some 40 minutes later) is the Mechilta which we recite in the haggadah itself, that the Mitzvah to tell the story “does not begin on Rosh Chodesh” etc., rather when the Matzah and Marror are placed before you. The mitzvah of eating Matzah can for sure not be fulfilled before nightfall, and the Mechilta is tying the telling of the story, i.e the entire bulk of the Seder, to it. While halachic arguments have been made that items like Kiddush and karpas, and the breaking of the middle matzah can all be done before nightfall (see this wonderful essay) in truth, this would unfortunately only buy you a few minutes anyway. 

For this reason, I’ve been giving the following advice in our annual Halacha How-To:

The late hour creates a potential problem relative to children’s participation in the Seder. Let me make the following suggestion if none of the more conventional solutions (e.g., afternoon naps) proves successful. Begin the seder promptly at 8:02 PM, but break the Magid section into 2 parts, with one part done before the meal, and the other part after. The pre-meal part should include the sections specified by the Talmud as the bare bones of the Magid.

These sections are:

• Mah Nishtana
• Avadim Hayinu
• At first our ancestors were idolaters
• The section from “My father was a wandering Aramean,” through the ten plagues
• From “Rabban Gamliel” to the end. 

If this dividing of the Magid will enable the children to participate in Matzah and Marror, it is well worth doing. If this too won’t do the trick, we would suggest a “model seder” for the kids before the officially appointed hour.

Q: This year, Seder falls on Motzai Shabbat, which means the Seder cannot begin until 8 pm. Our children go to bed at 7 and we are hosting secular Jewish family members (adults and kids) who would likely not have a Seder without us hosting, and would likely not come if we were to start after 8.

We were wondering if there's any way to do an "educational seder" as seudah shlishit early with the understanding that this will not fulfill the halachic obligation of the seder? Then, after 8pm, we would have a second, halachic seder for ourselves.

Specifically, one concern is around matzah: Could we have egg matzah in the seudah shlishit "educational seder"?

A: (RYK) Indeed, an important question. So, a few things that are relevant.

In the circumstances you describe it would be worthwhile to have an educational Seder for your kids and for your visiting family members. The trick is timing. As a general rule, we avoid starting meals on Erev Shabbat or Erev Yom Tov once we hit the tenth halachik hour of the day on Shabbat, which would be at 4:00 PM on Erev Pesach this year. We do this - in particular on Erev Pesach - in order to preserve our appetites, so that “we eat Matzah with appetite. So, you’d need to begin earlier than 4:00, and in the spirit of the law, finish before there be any doubt about having an appetite for Matzah later.

With regard to eating Kosher for Passover egg matzah at this hour, please see the general guidelines inside the Erev Pesach on Shabbat section here. If you feel that for the participants in the “early Seder” it would be educationally / spiritually meaningful to eat egg matzah, I think that you can rely on the lenient opinion. 

Q: When does purchasing actually happen? Is it at the time of order or the time of receiving if those two are not at the same time? I.e. – can you place an order for chametz that you know will be received after Pesach is over or does the act of placing the order constitute purchasing chametz?

A: (RYK) It would seem to me that once you place the order and your credit card is charged, you are the owner of the chametz relative to the prohibition of owning chametz on Pesach. If the chametz you ordered won't come into existence until Pesach is over, it would be permissible to order it on Pesach.