The Questions (and Answers) of BDJ

View a printable version of this Q & A here.

Thank you to everyone who submitted to the second round of Kashrut questions. You’re helping us build a great resource for our entire community. Please enjoy Rav David’s and my responses below.

Q: I understand that certain Hechshers are not accepted by our community (e.g. Tablet K and Triangle K), but I often see these hechshers on frozen vegetables, which I thought don’t need a Hechsher. Are these acceptably kosher?

A: (RYK) Please see the answer to the next question regarding Hechshers that our community does not accept and use. 

To get directly to your question: There are many foods and drinks that simply do not require any certification at all, and this status of course does not change when a certification we do not use happens to appear on the package.

In general terms, it’s actually quite valuable to know which products do not require any kosher certification, as this makes life both easier and less expensive! You can find lists of such foods on various kashrut websites. Rabbi Eidlitz’ Kosherquest has this kind of list, and the cRc (Chicago Rabbinical Council) has category-by category lists indicating the foods that need no certification. See for example, their lists of beverages, Slurpee flavors, and of general groceries. It’s true that occasionally these posted lists can be a little more stringent than necessary, but that’s what your local Orthodox Rabbi is for :). Never hesitate to shoot us a question when you are in doubt.  

Q: I've heard that there are lots of different opinions around the reliability of certain hechsherim. How do you figure out what is a reliable hechsher and what is not? How much of this is politics and how much of this halachik? Are there certain hechshers we as a community do not hold by and if so, why not?

A: (RYK) As I wrote a few weeks ago, It is of course always possible that “political considerations” are at play when a particular hashgacha is not accepted. Kashrut supervision invariably involves money, turf, and personalities, and as result bad stuff happens. At the same time, the field of kashrut supervision is much like other fields in that some practitioners have gained the confidence of colleagues and even the respect of competitors for their maintaining of high standards, performing consistently good work, and rarely making mistakes. One’s reputation is one’s calling card, and for good and for bad this reputation determines how reliable one’s work is considered to be.

To this I will add that sometimes there are simply different halachic opinions in play. For example, while Rav Moshe Feinstein ruled, somewhat innovatively, that products that contain non-kosher grape juice or wine are nonetheless kosher as long as the wine or grape juice is less than 1/6th of the product’s total volume, other rabbis disagreed with this position and as a result the position was not adopted by the majority of kashrut agencies (though it was adopted by one.). Similarly, there is a halachic disagreement as to whether boiling oil (as opposed to boiling water) can be used to kasher factory machinery between its non-kosher and kosher “runs”. Here too, the lenient position has its advocates (and is utilized in practice by one kashrut agency), but most kashrut rabbinical authorities disagreed, and the majority of Kashrut agencies developed their policies accordingly. As a result, there are indeed certain certifications that we do not use (when they appear on products that require certification), as they are utilizing Halachik positions that have not been accepted by the kashrut mainstream. These do include, as noted in the first question, Tablet-K and Triangle-K. 

The easiest way to find out if a certification is generally accepted in the Orthodox community is to check Rabbi Eidlitz’ Kosherquest Symbol List . And again, never hesitate to contact one of your rabbis!

Q: What if the metal Stirrers/beaters on your PARVE hand mixer are accidentally used to stir something dairy? Can they be kashered?

A: (RDS) Remember that was long as we’re not dealing with sharp food like onions or with certain utensils like knives, heat is always required to transfer “taste” between food and any utensils that it comes into contact with (see below as well for the discussion of salad servers). So, assuming that we’re talking about stirrers that are used to mix cake batters and the like, even if they are used to stir something dairy, they do not lose their parve status unless they come into contact with hot dairy foods - and therefore there would be no need to kasher these stirrers. 

At the same time, if your parve stirrers did come into contact with hot dairy or meat foods in a way that would cause a transfer of taste, then yes - you would always be able to kasher them as needed.

Q: I've always been curious about the delicate balancing act of following the laws of Kashrut, with Shalom Bayit. It is common to find people who have in-laws, or parents, or siblings, or even spouses who follow things differently, and thus I hear about what they are either doing, or what they were advised to do to walk that line. (I can give many examples of ways people "bend" in these situations, but I think the question speaks for itself).

My interest is often about the balance that halacha allows between the "letter of the law" and the human experience, so I'm interested in hearing your answer.

A: (RDS) There is a famous story (I have no idea if it’s actually true) about the Chafetz Chaim being asked the same question about the kashrut of a slaughtered chicken over the course of a single day by two different people. In one situation, he ruled stringently, while in the second case he ruled leniently. When his students came to him to ask how it could be possible that he gave two different answers to the exact same question, he responded by saying something to the effect of “when paskening (answering halakhic questions), you don’t just look at the chicken - you have to also look at the person asking the question. In the first instance, I could rely on the normative ruling, as I knew that particular farmer had a large and thriving farm. In the second case, however, the woman who came to me was wearing rags and had no livelihood - I knew that a stringent ruling would leave her and her family without food for the week, and so I relied on the lenient position.” 

In short, halakha is always about a balance between the “letter of the law” and the human experience. Our rabbis built and recorded a system of law over generations that takes into account things like sickness, financial concerns, respect, dignity, animal welfare, mental health, and many other factors when deciding any halakhic question. So, without having a specific scenario or question to address, I would simply say here that the balance of these factors is one of halakha’s primary interests as well. 

I will note, though, that this balance does not result in a “where there’s a halakhic will, there’s a halakhic way” reality of simply searching for and applying leniencies whenever possible - instead, it results in a true balance of competing priorities that must be considered in any situation. So, when it comes to answering these types of questions, it’s rarely a question of simply “finding a loophole” - instead, it’s often about a careful calculus of the various opinions, normative practices, relative weights (i.e. rabbinic vs. biblical laws), and specific circumstances that must be considered to properly balance the values that the halakhic system makes space for. 

Q: Is it acceptable to consume fresh, whole raspberries?  

A: (RYK) So while the word “bugs” does not appear in your question, it is my presumption that this is what you’re asking :). Raspberries (among many other berries and other forms of produce) DO need to be carefully washed off before use, and they should also optimally be left to soak in water for a bit to make sure that no insects float to the top of the water. The Torah’s prohibition of the eating of insects absolutely translates into a Halachik imperative to take reasonable precautions to ensure that we are avoiding eating critters. It should be noted that we are only required to remove insects that we can see with the naked eye. 

There is though one aspect of this discussion concerning which I (and others) believe that the position taken by some of the kashrut agencies is simply more stringent than is Halachikly warranted. Though you will find the more stringent position on many of the kashrut websites, there is solid Halachik basis for not needing to be concerned about insects that might be embedded inside produce, as opposed to those which are on the surface and definitely need to be washed off. I wrote about this at length some years ago (for Morethodoxy a”h), and fortunately I was able to find it among my files! The aptly titled: BUGS.docx is included it at the end of this week's Q & A.

Q: If I understand correctly, metal utensils that I haven't used in 24 hours are considered pareve and I can use them for meat or milk even if it was originally meat or milk.  If that is true, then utensils that I always wash pareve (sliver salad servers, etc.) and only use once a week, can be put in my meat dishwasher and be considered pareve as they won't be used for another number of day?

A: Great question. I need to begin though by correcting your premise. It is true that a pot or other implement that hasn’t been used (for hot food) over the past 24 hours is technically parve. This is because whatever “ta’am” (“flavor”) the implement may have absorbed from the previous use is no longer considered Halachikly relevant, and it cannot impact the food that is being prepared now. And in fact, if you had inadvertently used a dairy pot of this sort to cook a meat cholent, the cholent itself would be permissible (although the pot is a different question.) However, in order to prevent general meat-dairy kitchen confusion, the Halacha obligates us to kasher a pot that had been used for dairy before we’d use it for meat, or vice versa. (An important note, that there is a tradition to not routinely kasher pots back and forth from dairy to meat and back again as this too invites confusion and errors.)

But to get to your specific question: Salad servers that you wash in your dishwasher (with either meat or dairy) CAN always be used with your next meal, regardless of whether that meal is meat or dairy. This is because salad servers are exclusively used with cold food (i.e salad) and therefore we need not be concerned that they will impart any “ta’am” that they may have absorbed in the dishwasher, as the imparting of “ta’am” requires the presence of heat. (Cutting onions and similar foods is an exception to that rule, but that is its own story.) The same would hold true of any other implement that is used only with cold food. 

In addition, if you utilize the options presented in last month’s dishwasher teshuva then there is no transfer of “ta’am” happening inside your dishwasher to begin with, and your salad servers and other parve implements remain completely parve in every way.  

Q: Is non-kosher cheese in the United States really not kosher? It seems that most cheeses we can buy in the store no longer contain animal rennet. If that's the case, why can't we start eating non-kosher cheeses that don't contain animal rennet?

A: (RDS) A quick teaser before diving into this great question: this topic is going to serve as an important part of our upcoming “Nosh and Drosh” conversation about Modern Orthodoxy - so come join us for this community conversation on August 24th!

It happens to be that your question is the subject of a famous and incredibly consequential debate between the Rambam (Maimonides) and Tosfot that touch on the core principles of the halakhic process and tradition - so I’m glad you asked!

First, some background on cheese production for anyone who hasn’t thought deeply about how in the world milk is turned into a chunk of mozzarella: in ancient times - and to this day! - cheese was produced by introducing enzymes or bacteria to milk, which causes it to ferment and curdle. Back in the day, this was often done by pouring milk directly into harvested stomachs of slaughtered animals (where these bacteria are naturally found). The major issue here, however, was whether the milk itself as well as those stomachs (or the bacteria harvested from them) were from kosher animals - and so the gemara (Avodah Zara 29b) writes that cheese produced by non-Jews is forbidden out of concern that it was produced using non-kosher animals. 

Enter the Rambam and Tosfot. The Rambam famously writes that this prohibition remains in place even if we know that the milk was produced with kosher animals or from plant-based chemicals! Tosfot, on the other hand, writes that in places where it is known that cheese is produced using plant-based bacteria, then eating that cheese - even though produced by a non-Jew - would be permitted. Ultimately, the Shulhan Arukh and normative halakha follow the stringent position of the Rambam, leading to our perennial search for kosher cheese in supermarkets and while on vacations throughout the world. We are therefore inheritors of a stringency introduced by Rambam that argued for a policy of blanket prohibition against cheese produced by non-Jews - even if we have information that would be permissive - in order to prevent confusion and create consistency on an issue that could present a serious kashrut challenge.

Now, this all may seem a bit odd for those of you wondering “how could it be that something is prohibited even if we know that it should be ok?!” And, indeed, that is the question to ask, and the reason why this particular law is so foundational to the entirety of the halakhic system. If we take a second to think about it, though (and apologies in advance for the bursting of any bubbles here), halakha is not determined by empirical reality. I’ll say that again: halakha must always respond to and address the world around us - but it is not decided by that reality. This is likely obvious for anyone who has pondered the experience of the second day of Yom Tov - a day that we know, and which can be mathematically calculated as definitively not Yom Tov! Or, for that matter, the Eruv that allows us to carry here in the LA on Shabbat - take a careful look and you will discover that it is (gasp!) not an actual wall! For here is the underlying and most important principle: Hashem handed the decision-making power of halakhic legislation to us, and it is the product of generations and generations of scholars and communities grappling with the challenge of finding, defining, and legislating the “right” answer - even if it is not the answer that we would say is empirically or scientifically “correct.” There’s a deep epistemology here about what it means to be a Jew and to observe mitzvot - but the best way that I would put it is that we are part of a millenia-long tradition of holy and brave people and communities who have grappled with and struggled to determine what is demanded of us in a world in which God doesn’t provide any easy or clear answers - even (or especially) when the answers we’ve come up with fly in the face of the realities, cultures, or science of the day. Personally, I find that being part of that noble tradition is far more magical than being “right” all the time, and so I get double the enjoyment out of seeing that bulk-sized bag of Haolam cheese in the supermarket aisles. 

BUGS

Readers in the Los Angeles area have been buzzing (no pun intended) for almost two weeks now about the Jewish Journal’s cover story about bugs in vegetables. The story aroused much exasperation and cynicism in the Pico-Robertson ‘hood, as it implied that one could only conform with the prohibition on consuming bugs through a combination of tedious inspection and washing of some vegetables, paying an exorbitant price for others, and giving up entirely on yet others.  The story featured the sweeping sub-headline “The presence of even one bug can render an entire vegetable not kosher. On this matter, Orthodox rabbis are unequivocal.”

Unfortunately, the Journal story omitted a significant portion of the classical halachik discussion on this issue, the portion that applies normative halachik leniencies to the bug issue. For the sake then of expanding the parameters of the discussion in the ‘hood, I offer the following brief points (you are invited to check the Bnai David – Judea bulletin over the next several Shabbatot for the fuller discussion at www.bnaidavid.com):

1. We are forbidden to eat bugs that are big enough to be seen by the naked eye.  And leafy vegetables that tend to have bugs on them at least 10% of the time, need to be checked. On this, Orthodox rabbis truly are unequivocal. What’s the checking procedure? To quote the Star-K website, “Make a complete leaf by leaf inspection, checking both sides of the leaf. Wash off any insects prior to use.” Pretty straightforward.

2. Bugs that are not on the surface of leaves, but which are lodged inside the florets of broccoli for example, are by Torah law, deemed insignificant (“batel”) as they occupy less than 1/60^th of the broccoli’s total mass. There is however, a potential complication introduced by rabbinic law, which generally regards any complete organic unit (like a bug for example) as being resistant to the laws of “insignificance”. Thus, the possibility that embedded bugs too must be removed.

3. However, Rabbi Moshe Heinemann, the Star-K’s rabbinic administrator explained in a 2007 article, why the laws of insignificance pertain to embedded bugs nonetheless. There is a reasonable chance, he points out, that any given head of broccoli may contain no bugs at all, which is to say that the presence of embedded bugs is a “safek” (doubtful). And as a general halachik principle, we only refrain from rabbinicaly prohibited items when they are certainly present, but when they are only possibly present, we rule leniently. In Rabbi Heinemann’s words, “[in] cluster vegetables, where parasites hide themselves in the vegetable’s florets and we cannot see them through visual inspection, the halacha postulates that we can take a lenient position and assume that the florets are insect-free”.

4. He continues that it is nonetheless “proper” (perhaps to ensure that we’re not dealing with an unusually heavily-infested head) that the Star-K’s checking procedure be used, which involves the following fairly simple steps: “Agitate florets in a white bowl of clean water. Examine the water to see that it is insect-free. If insects are found, you may re-do this procedure up to three times in total. If there are still insects, the whole batch must be discarded. If the water is insect-free, look over florets to see if any insects are visible on the tops and stems. If no insects are noticed, you may use the vegetable.” Again, pretty simple and straightforward.

5. Rabbi Heinemann was far from the first to rule leniently on these matters. Rabbi Yechiel Michel Epstein, in his classic halachik work Aruch HaShulchan identifies three additional reasons why bugs that are embedded in vegetables need not be checked for or removed (at all). One of the three reasons is that the rabbinic stringency concerning complete organic units was never meant to apply to items that people find repulsive (like eating bugs for example)

Of paramount significance is Rabbi Epstein’s motivation for seeking leniencies in this area. He observed that the religious Jews of his day routinely ate vegetables, only removing the bugs that were visible on the surface. “And it is unthinkable to suggest”, he says, “that the people of Israel (“Clal Yisrael”) are all stumbling with regard to this prohibition.., and it is proper therefore to search [for leniency] in their merit.” And he concludes his discussion by saying, “and God will judge us meritoriously, just as we are bringing merit to the people of Israel”

It is this spirit, the halachik authority taking responsibility both for the law, and for the people, that has sadly fallen out of today’s bug conversation, warping much of the contemporary rabbinic approach.

Please do follow up with your own rabbi with further questions, but the general approach outlined above, is a solid halachik framework.